Uncle Down, the Horse Trickster

Once again, Mom took time out of her busy schedule to share her favorite Uncle Daniel, AKA Uncle Down, stories. 

Transcript

Once again, Mom took time out of her busy schedule to share her favorite stories about Uncle Daniel, AKA Uncle Down, who was Great-Grandfather Jesse's third child.

Teresa Roberson

Mom, tell me about your Uncle Daniel, who you called “Uncle Down.”

Velma Roberson

Uncle Down, lived in the home house in Grandpa's house in Cascade. And this was a great big house. So, all the kids just loved to go down there because he and Aunt Carrie were a lot of fun. And they had all kinds of fruits like grapes, apples, oranges, not oranges, but apples, peaches, pears, fig tree. What else? Plums. So, in the summertime, we just all would love to go down there. And people love to have parties there also, because I don't know if you remember the front room. It was huge. So, a lot of people could get in there. And they would have parties. And Uncle Down loved for them to have parties. Because when the party get going good, almost time for people to go home, he would get him a little nip. And then come and start dancing with his broom. He'd put on a show for all of us. So, nobody would dance. Everybody would sit back and watch he and his broom dance.

Teresa Roberson

You talked about the "home house?" 

Velma Roberson

Well, I'm calling it the "home house." It was Grandpa's house in Cascade. Grandpa had two houses. 

Teresa Roberson  

You're saying that I've been there? 

Velma Roberson  

Oh, yes.  

Teresa Roberson

Who lived there when I visited? 

Velma Roberson

Let me see. Aunt Carrie. Uncle Daniel had deceased. But you may not remember because you were so young. Because when we came from overseas with you in '71, Uncle Daniel... we came to the States at the same date of his funeral. 

My family returned to the States from Japan, where my father, Karl Wayne Roberson, was stationed with the Air Force.  Actually, I don’t remember anything about life in Okinawa even though I was born there. 

So, you may remember going down to visit Aunt...no, you wouldn't remember that because you were probably too young. You probably wouldn't remember.

Teresa Roberson

I think the only house I remember is Aunt Carrie Dallas. 

Aunt Carrie Dallas was the sister of my grandmother, Beatrice M.  Strange AKA Mama Bea. Aunt Carrie Strange was the sister-in-law of my grandfather, Floyd B. Strange. So, Mom grew up with two Aunt Carries.  I was an adult when I learned that my “Great Aunt Carrie,” was a title that actually applied two different women.

Velma Roberson

Yeah.

Teresa Roberson

 Because she lived with Aunt Ida. 

Aunt Ida was another of Mama Bea’s sisters.

Velma Roberson

Right. 

Teresa Roberson

See, it was Aunt Carrie Dallas who dipped snuff and you know what? That's the only reason I remember. Because she spit in that tin can when we visited her that one time. 

Velma Roberson  

Yeah, that's Mama Bea's sister.  

Teresa Roberson

Right. That's the only Aunt Carrie I remember. 

Velma Roberson

But I thought you remembered Aunt Carrie Strange. 

Teresa Roberson

Who lives in the home house now? 

Velma Roberson

Oh, they tore it down. You remember where Karen's mobile home is in Cascade? By the cemetery?

Karen is one of my third cousins.  Funny story, her mother had a baby a few months before Mom had me. Had Momknown that Cousin Gladys had named her daughter Teresa, I would have a different name.

You know where Uncle Jug, the road to go down to Uncle Jug's?

Uncle James AKA “Uncle Jug,” was one of Mama Bea’s brothers. 

Teresa Roberson

Yes.  

Velma Roberson  

Okay. That mobile home’s straight across from the turn to go to Uncle Jug's on the opposite side. That was Karen's house. I say "Karen." Vanessa, Vanessa. I'm sorry. That was Vanessa's house. Aunt Mary's granddaughter. 

Aunt Mary was Great Grandfather Jesse’s ninth child and the fifth and final girl in a row.

That was her mobile home. And she sold it.

Teresa Roberson

Well, Vanessa is her sister, right? 

Velma Roberson

Yeah, Vanessa is her sister. 

Teresa Roberson

Okay. So, still the same family. 

Velma Roberson

Yeah, same family, but just different person. Uncle Daniel always liked to put on shows for us children. And he had a horse. This was his horse that he rode all the time. See, Uncle Daniel didn't drive an automobile. He did own a tractor later on. But at this particular time, he only owned horses. So, he had like a horse that he would ride around. Then they had workhorses. So, his horse that he rode around, when he would get tipsy and want to put on a show for us, he would go and get this beautiful horse and bring it. Ride it around there close by the house, and start putting on a show and have the horse to stand on the hind legs. And, you know, walk. So, all of us children would not go outside because we were afraid of the horse. And we knew Uncle Daniel was drinking. So, we didn't know what he and the horse were going to do. So, we never did go outside until he took the horse back to the stables.

Teresa Roberson

Can you describe some of the tricks that he would do? 

Velma Roberson  

Oh, just make the horse walk on the hind legs and do little things, you know, right there in front of the window, where we'd be standing, looking. You know, Uncle Down was a farmer, right? He raised tobacco. So, when he would finish his crop with tobacco and sell it all, then he would get him a train ticket to DC. He said he was going to visit the President. But what he did, he went up to see his sisters. But he'd always say, "I'm going up to visit the President."

Teresa Roberson   

Which sisters, would he visit? 

Velma Roberson  

All of them in DC. All his sisters were in DC. Aunt Cindy, Mary, Vi and Gracie. So, he went to see all of them. See, if you went to one house, if you didn't go see them at their house, they all come to the house where you are. And that person would fix dinner for everybody. So, more or less like a little mini family reunion. You had lots of fun.  

Teresa Roberson   

So, all of his sisters left the Cascade area to work? 

Velma Roberson  

Yes. They all moved to DC. But you know, Aunt Mary used to be a teacher there in Cascade, right? 

Teresa Roberson   

Yes.

Velma Roberson

 So, she taught Daddy and Mother.

Teresa Roberson

Now I hear that Uncle Down also farmed corn in addition to tobacco. 

Velma Roberson

Oh yeah, but the corn was for he and the livestocks. Tobacco was to sell. That's how he made his living, raising tobacco and selling it, taking it to the market. He raised a lot of vegetables. You know, that's what they did in the country. They raised their own vegetables and canned it. So, in the wintertime, they really didn't have to go to store to buy any veggies. They just opened up the can.

Teresa Roberson

Now you said that Uncle Down was always drinking.

Velma Roberson

Like on weekends or whenever there was a party at his house, yes. He was always drinking and putting on a show, you know, dancing for us and all with his broomstick.

Teresa Roberson

Do you know the name of the dances or was it just something silly?

Velma Roberson  

I think something he made up. So, everybody would laugh. He would take over the floor.

Teresa Roberson

I know you were a child, but did you know what he was drinking? 

Velma Roberson  

Mostly moonshine. You know, whiskey that was made right there in Cascade.  

Teresa Roberson  

Did he make it? 

Velma Roberson

No, he didn't make it. But the person that made it, sometimes would make it on their property. So, I'm thinking they may have given them all they wanted. I'm just thinking that. I don't know. But yeah, they made it different places. You've heard of whiskey still, right? 

Teresa Roberson

Yes. 

Velma Roberson

Okay. That's what they would have. Sometimes, like in the winter time, Uncle Down want to cool his drunk, he would go, drink and get in the, they had this big, trunk. He would get in there sometime. Nobody would know where he was. Just get in there and, I guess, sleep it off. Next thing you know, he would appear. "Where you been?" "Oh, I was upstairs." That's where the trunk was. But it was like he was hiding away. But yeah, He bought him a tractor. And you know, tractor is just used for the farm. You don't have to have a driver's license. But Daniel will use that tractor to visit some people. He would always come down to Daddy's, you know, on his tractor after he got the tractor. Before then, it was on a horseback. So, he never owned an automobile. And he never had a driver's license.

Teresa Roberson

How many horses did he own? 

Velma Roberson  

Oh, I don't know. I know he had three. Because if you're using the wagon, you're going to have two horses. And then he had his special horse that he rode when he were getting around. That was his special horse. Like some people have an everyday car. And then they might have a Cadillac or something else for, you know, the weekend. So, that was like Uncle Daniel. He had everyday horses that he worked, and then they had a special horse that he will ride the horseback when he goes somewhere.

Teresa Roberson  

Now, your parents own horses as well, right? 

Velma Roberson  

Yeah, my parents owned horses. These were horses to farm the land. You know, before he got a tractor, he had plows and all this that you hook onto the horse, and the horse would have to pull those. But then when the tractors came into being, Daddy bought a tractor. I think I may have been about maybe seven or eight years old. And I learned to drive the tractor before I learned to drive the car. Mostly boys would be driving the tractors. Except for me. I'd be driving Daddy's tractor. So, I was like a little tomboy. 

Teresa Roberson  

Did anybody teach you how to ride a horse?

Velma Roberson

Oh, yes. I mean, it was nothing to it. I'd seen my brothers do it. So, if I got away from the house, then Daddy would let me ride the horseback. But if mother was around, I couldn't ride a horseback. 

Teresa Roberson

Why not? 

Velma Roberson

She didn't want me on the horse. I guess she thought I get hurt or something. So, I guess she was very protective of me. But then I get with Daddy, I could ride the horseback all I wanted. He would help me on there and it was nothing to it.

Teresa Roberson

How long did you guys have horses?

Velma Roberson  

Oh my gosh. Well, eventually, Daddy didn't need a horse after he had had his tractor for a while. He didn't need the horses. So, then he got rid of them. Because see, the horses were really to help to farm the land, you know, plow and whatever else you had to do with the taking care of the land. Because my daddy farmed also, and he raised gardens. So, you had to have something to till the land. And something to pull the tobacco from the field to where they were, you know, putting it on the sticks. 

Teresa Roberson  

I was just wondering, because I never even knew that you grew up with horses or even liked riding horses. 

Velma Roberson  

Oh, yes. I grew up with horses, pigs, cows. You name it. I knew how to do everything. 

Teresa Roberson

But you never wanted to own a horse as an adult? 

Velma Roberson

Oh no!  I wouldn't give up my automobile for a horse.

Teresa Roberson  

I meant for recreation. 

Velma Roberson  

No. I don't think I would ride a horseback now. I think I'd be more afraid of them. I did it back then because Daddy was close to the horses. And I felt like whatever he was around, wouldn't harm me. So, that's why I was, you know, wanting to ride the horse. Herbert and all rode the horses. So, then why couldn't I ride a horse? A lot of times I put on Herbert's bib overalls and I'm just like another little boy. 

Uncle Herbert is one of Mom’s four older brothers. 

Because back in the day, girls didn't wear pants. We all had to wear dresses and skirts. 

Teresa Roberson  

So, you never went horseback riding just for fun as a child? 

Velma Roberson  

No. Just out of mother's sight, I did. But not where someone else did see me. 

Teresa Roberson  

And you weren't working the field? 

Velma Roberson  

No, I didn't work in the field. When Daddy did his tobacco, he and the boys would prime it. Get out the leaves out the field and send it to where a mother was. So, I would be there handing and leaves to her. And she'd put it on a stick to go up in the barn. So yeah, I mean I've worked. That's why I say I would never marry a man that say he want a farm. If he say anything about a farm, he wouldn't be my boyfriend. 

Teresa Roberson  

When you met Dad in high school... well you met before high school, didn't you? 

Velma Roberson

I'm not sure. I may have seen him at Shiloh, but we didn't get interested in each other until high school. 

Shiloh was one of the local Baptist churches where my parents grew up.

We went to the same church and Sunday school and all that.

Teresa Roberson

But he was two years ahead of you, right? 

Velma Roberson

Right. 

Teresa Roberson

You never had classes with him? 

Velma Roberson

Oh no. At our high school, you never had classes with the under students, students younger than you. They would keep all the eighth graders together, tenth, whatever grade you're in, they all would be together. They didn't mix different grades. 

Teresa Roberson

So, all growing up you were a tobacco farmer or you had farm work to do? 

Velma Roberson

Right. Mother let me fix the dinner. A lot of times she would put it on. Then, I would finish it and she would be out of stringing tobacco. She would have someone else to hand leaves to her. So, I would go in and finish the dinner. I'll never forget, Olander Jr. 

Olander Jr, the oldest child of one of Mom’s brothers, was also the first grandchild in the family. And like most people in my family, Olander Jr also has a nickname, Charlie.

I wanted to whip that little boy's butt so bad when he was little. He would be right under me everywhere, every move I made, he would be right there. So, when dinner time came, he say, "Mama Bea, Velma don't need to eat, she ate the whole time she was cooking.” See, I'm used to tasting my food to make sure I got it seasoned right. So, he thought I was really eating. Mother say, "Oh, okay. Well, that's okay. She could eat." Because Mother knew what I was doing. But Charlie would watch every move I made. So, now we're very good friends.  

Teresa Roberson

Right. Now that he's grown. 

Velma Roberson

Right. And I never got to whip his butt.  

Well, Mom definitely made up for lost opportunity by whipping my butt, however that's for a different story. 

Teresa Roberson

One question I was gonna ask, but I think I know the answer, is that you never went horseback riding with Uncle Down?

Velma Roberson  

Oh, no, no. Because Uncle Down would always bring the horse up to the house when he's drinking. I didn't want to go outside with him on the horse.

Teresa Roberson

He was that wild? 

Velma Roberson

The horse wasn't wild, but I didn't know what Uncle Down and the horse would do. 

Teresa Roberson  

I was talking about Uncle Down. I wasn't talking about the horse. 

Velma Roberson  21:38

Oh. 

Teresa Roberson  21:39

Uncle Down was that wild when he was drinking and on horseback? 

Velma Roberson

He would like to do different stunts with the horse. When the horse is standing up, that was frightening to me. So, we children did not go out while he was in the yard with the horse. Because we felt like and we went out there that horse might come back down on top of us. Can you imagine someone on a horseback and get the horse walking on his two hind legs?  

Teresa Roberson  

Yeah, I've seen that before. I wasn't alive when he was doing it. 

Velma Roberson  

Yeah, but you saw it off distance, right?  

Teresa Roberson  

Right. 

Velma Roberson

Yeah. See, that would be real frightening if I'm in the area, and they are doing it. That's why we stayed inside and looked out.

Teresa Roberson

Was he ever part of a rodeo?

Velma Roberson

No. You know, a lot of the people back in the day, they had a lot of talent. He used to be, what you call, a blacksmith? Where you shoe the horse? Put the horseshoes on the horse. 

Teresa Roberson

Yes. 

Velma Roberson

Yeah. He used to do that. So, he had a lot of talent. And a lot of people, you know, in the country had a lot of talent. But they never ventured out to really use all their talent. In the winter time, you always like to go by Aunt Carrie's, Uncle Down and Aunt Carrie's because they have one type of real red apple, look like delicious apples. And she could wrap them up and put them in an attic and they will last all winter long. They would not spoil. 

Teresa Roberson

How would she wrap them? 

Velma Roberson

In newspaper.

Teresa Roberson

It must have been because it was so cold.

Velma Roberson

Maybe so because up in the attic was cold. And we go by there and she'd give us one of these red, real red apples. So, we just loved going back there to, you know, get apples and things. And did you ever eat figs?

Teresa Roberson

Yes.

Velma Roberson

Okay, they had a fig tree. And I learned when the figs were ripe. They would change colors. Because when it's ripe, they would be sweet. So, you didn't want to get one when it wasn't ripe because it wouldn't taste good.

Teresa Roberson

Now Uncle Down never had children, correct?

Velma Roberson 

Correct. But they always had children around because they were very nice to children. If Mother and Daddy went out of town, that's where usually Herbert and I would stay. Most of the time mother would take me with her, but sometimes if she didn't take me with her, then we would stay down with Aunt Carrie and Uncle Down. Then in the summertime, oh my gosh, all those grapes. I mean, they had like a vineyard, grape harbor, whatever. You just get under it and just picked all the grapes you want. We would be just eating away.

Teresa Roberson

What kind of grapes were they?

Velma Roberson

You know, I really don't know. All I know they were delicious grapes.

Teresa Roberson

They weren't Concord grapes.

Velma Roberson

I'm not sure. I just know they were really good. They were dark. 

Teresa Roberson

Did they ever make wine? Or did they just stick to moonshine?

Velma Roberson

I think they made wine. Sometimes. Yeah, I'm quite sure they did. Because it seemed like Mother would have made some. I think I remember her making some out of grapes and dandelions! You know the dandelion flowers? 

Teresa Roberson

Yes. 

Velma Roberson

Okay. Yeah, Mother used to make it from the dandelions, too. And then I think Uncle Down used to make homebrew. He and Aunt Carrie.

Teresa Roberson

That was mostly tomato-based, right?

Velma Roberson

Right. Yeah, but that was good.

Teresa Roberson

I remember drinking some as a child.

Velma Roberson

Do you remember me making some?

Teresa Roberson

No. 

Velma Roberson

No? Maybe it was after you left. I made some. But I haven't made it in years now. It's really good when you first make it because the longer you have it, the stronger you get, and I don't like it when it gets strong.

Teresa Roberson

Now one thing Ted was talking about was hoe cakes. When I grew up, and I visited Mama Bea, y'all would make biscuits. It wasn't hoe cakes.

Velma Roberson

You know, I'm not sure if Ted was talking about the hoe cakes made in the fireplace. Did he say where they were made? 

Teresa Roberson

No. 

Velma Roberson

Okay, back in the day, I mean, I never did see it, but I was told that they would make hoe cakes in the fireplace among the ashes. You would have to, I guess wash it off. I never seen that. And there was no other type of hoe cakes is like bread about size of a plate. That's what they would put in the oven.

Teresa Roberson

That was with corn meal, right? 

Velma Roberson

No, flour. Some of their hoe cakes would be made, about the size of a plate, dinner plate. But see Mother never did make any like that.

Teresa Roberson

When you grew up, was it mostly wheat flour or corn flour?

Velma Roberson

Is wheat flour. I guess. I don't know. It could have been corn. Because we had a mill not far from where we lived that Daddy would take stuff down. So, it could have been corn flour. Come to think of it, it probably was.

Teresa Roberson

I just wondered if you grew up mostly on corn bread or a biscuit.

Velma Roberson

Both. We would have biscuits in the morning and corn bread for dinner. So, every day, you're going to have biscuits in the morning. And most of the time do you have cornbread for dinner. So, I just had some cornbread today. I made some after I came home from church. Cornbread muffins. They were delicious.

Teresa Roberson

I was just wondering because nowadays we take it for granted you can get whatever type of bread you want. But some people saw wheat flour as being more expensive than corn flour or corn mill.

Velma Roberson

Well, see back in the day, the farmers took their corn to the mill to get ground into flour. So, I don't think that was very expensive.

Teresa Roberson  

But no one in the family raised wheat.

Velma Roberson 

Oh, yes. Daddy did raise wheat. He raised both. He raised corn. We had corn to eat and corn for the livestocks. So, Daddy did it all. He farmed and he had gardens. And Mother would can stuff in jars. And then the winter time. She just opened the jars up, you got your veggies. You didn't have to go to store and buy that.

Teresa Roberson

It's just interesting. You and Ted have different memories. Some of its overlapping.

Velma Roberson

Well see, Ted always lived in North Carolina. I was just down the road from Uncle Down. So, I would see him just about every day. Ted may have seen him like on weekends or when school was out for the summer, then he would come down.

Teresa Roberson

No, I'm just saying it's interesting because Ted focused on the moonshine and you focused on the horse tricks.

Velma Roberson  

Well see, he would drink that moonshine, then get on the horse. That's what gave him all the nerve to get up there and ride like that. And do all those horse tricks. So, we knew that Uncle Down was tipsy when he go bring his horse up and have him to do all these tricks. Maybe that gave him nerve to do all these tricks on the horse. All that moonshine. But yeah, he was. He was a very good guy. I mean, all my daddy's siblings, male and female were very nice. I couldn't have asked for any better aunts and uncles. 

Teresa Roberson

All right, well, Thanks, Mom. 

Velma Roberson 

Okay. So, you have a good evening.

Teresa Roberson  

Thank you. You do the same.

Velma Roberson  

Thank you.